Saturday, May 8, 2010

Who's who in the Nevill universe 3. The Younger Nevills

[This blog has moved to]

Part 1 here.  Part 2 here.

Surprisingly, one of the sources I've found useful in sorting out who was born when and how many children they had is the multitude of personal family trees on the internet. While they are sometimes quite flawed, giving wrong birth/death/marriage dates and confusing parents with children, often they can be quite useful. For example, my initial research into Maud Stanhope (described as a 'youthful widow' in Hicks) was hugely helped by two family trees in particular. From these I was able to extrapolate her likely age at the time of her second marriage and it was the only place on the net where there was any substantial mention of either her first or third husbands. Similarly, various other trees gave me the information that, far from being a pathetic orphan as she has been prortrayed by at least one author,  Isobel Ingoldisthorpe's mother was alive at the time of her marriage (and for some decades after that).

This section is sketchier than the first two because I haven't got to the point of drilling down into these lives yet.

The Fitzalans - Joan Nevill and William Fitzalan earl of Arundel

I said earlier that the Fitzalans had two children when in fact they had five:

Thomas lord Maltravers (1450-1524) married Margaret Wydeville, sister of Elizabeth.
Margaret married John earl of Lincoln, later heir to Richard III

The Beauchamps - Cecily Nevill and Henry Beauchamp duke of Warwick

Anne Beauchamp 1443-1449, briefly countess of Warwick after her father's death. It was her death that brought the title to her aunt, also Anne Beauchamp, wife of Richard Nevill. As Henry's full sister, though younger than their half sisters, she inherited the title as well as the bulk of their father's (and her mother's) estates.

The Warwicks - Richard Nevill and Anne Beauchamp

The countess and earl of Warwick had two daughters.

Isobel Nevill (1452 -1476) married George duke of Clarence in 1469. They had four children, one either stillborn or died shortly after birth when the family was forced to flee England after Warwick's unsuccessful rebellion against Edward IV. Their son Edward inherited the Warwick title, their daughter Margaret the Salisbury title. Isobel died shortly after the birth of their fourth child, a son Richard (who also didn't survive) and was buried at Tewkesbury.

Anne Nevill (1456-1485) married first Edward Prince of Wales and second Richard duke of Gloucester.

Warwick also had an illegitimate daughter, Margaret.  She was born in or around Carlisle no later than 1450 and probably some years earlier. She married Richard Huddleston in June 1464. She and her husband attended Anne Nevill's coronation and it seems that she was given a court position by her half sister.

The Montagus - John Nevill and Isobel Ingoldisthorpe

John Nevill married Isobel Ingoldisthorpe in 1457. They had seven children who survived to adulthood and a son (John) who was either stillborn or died shortly after birth.

Anne married Wllliam Stonor
Isabelle married William Huddlestone
Elizabeth married Henry Wentworth
Margaret married John Mortimer and Charles Brandon
George, duke of Bedford
Lucy married Anthony Browne

In a very cynical piece of manoeuvering, Edward IV gave control of young George and his property to his brother Richard duke of Gloucester. George had been created duke of Bedford some time before this and this impoverishment rendered him incapable of maintaining his title, so it was revoked. George died in 1483 and his property and wealth (inherited from both his parents) went to Gloucester. Edward IV had offered his daughter Elizabeth in marriage to young George as part of his attempt to soften the blow when he took the earldom of Northumberland back from John Nevill.

The Stanleys - Alianor Nevill and Thomas Stanley

According to some sources, Alianor Nevill and Thomas Stanley had six sons, but I can only ever find three. Their oldest son, George lord Strange, was held hostage by Richard III at the battle of Bosworth, in the custody of William Catesby. This was supposed to ensure that Thomas Stanley (Henry's Tudor's step father by this time) didn't change sides. It didn't work and both Stanleys survived the battle. William Catesby (despite apparent assurances from both father and son that they would speak up for him if he didn't carry out his orders to execute Strange) was beheaded after the battle. It seems more likely that Stanley was fearful of the repercussions of his secret meetings (brokered by his wife) with Henry Tudor's supporters should Richard win the battle than he was inspired by either Henry Tudor himself or his role as step-father.

The Bonville/Hastings children - Katheryn Nevill and 1. William Bonville lord Harrington; 2. William Hastings

Katheryn Nevill had a daughter, Cecily, with William Bonville lord Harrington. In 1474, Cecily married Thomas Grey, marquess of Dorset. They had fourteen children. Thomas joined Buckingham's rebellion and fled to Brittany after it failed.  Thomas died in 1501 and Cecily married Henry Stafford earl of Wiltshire. She died in 1529.

Katheryn married William Hastings in 1462. They had five sons and a daughter. Three (Richard, William and a second Richard) died young.

Edward (1466-1506)
William (b 1470)
Anne (c 1471)

I'm going to be dealing with the Fitzhughs separately.


Susan Higginbotham said...

I could be wrong, but I believe that the Margaret who married the Earl of Lincoln was the daughter of Thomas, Lord Maltravers, and Margaret Wydeville. Thomas left Margaret a ring in his will, shown in Testamenta Vetusta:


Thomas Earl of Arundel8, 12 October 1524. My body to be buried in the Chancel of my Collegiate Church at Arundel, where my Lady my wife doth lie. I constitute Robert Bishop of Chichester, and my son William Arundel5, Lord Maltravers, my executors. To the Church, Prior, and Convent of my house of Tortyngton Liii s. Iv d.; to my daughter the Lady Lincoln, a ring.

Proved 29th December 1524*.

Ragged Staff said...

Susan, you're probably right. The source I got this from has other similar errors. Thanks for setting it straight. :-)

Su_H said...

It all gets very complicated doesn't it?
Perhaps you could clarify this from such a website? I have not come across this info elsewhere - do you know if its true?

Sir Richard LOWTHER b.1532 Lowther Hall d.1607 = Frances MIDDLETON bc.15 33 Middleton (dau of John MIDDLETON bc.1506 d.15/2/1579, [son of Geoffr ey of Middleton bc1480 and Margaret KIRKHAM], and his wife Ann TUNSTALL, [ dau of Brian TUNSTALL of Thurland Castle, Lancashire d.9/9/1513 at Batt le of Flodden and Isabel Boynton bc. 1484 Ackham, Yorkshire]. Brian Tuns tall was the son of Thomas and his wife Ann NEVILLE). Ann Neville was the illegitimate daughter of George Neville, who was Archbishop of York and brother of Richard Neville, "The Kingmaker".

Ragged Staff said...

You know, Su, that wouldn't surprise me in the least. He wasn't history's least worldly archbishop. I'm hopping over to that url post haste! Thank you so much for his intriguing little snippet.

Ragged Staff said...

Ok, George was born c 1432 and Ann (or Alice) was born c1445, which would have made him an awfully young father. Horrox mentions her (but not by name), in A Study of Service. She's mentioned on another RootsWeb site as Alice. It might be that there's confusion between the Georges and she's lord Latimer's daughter. Or George was a very naughty young divinity student indeed! This circa business can be a bit fuzzy, but I don't think we can push George's birth back very much, so we're talking a very young teenage boy here. It does seem that she existed, and that she married Thomas Tunstall of Thurland, but getting her parents (or at least her father), might be a bit tricky. I'm not going to pencil her in just yet, need to dig some more I think. Thanks Su.