Showing posts with label JOHN NEVILL. Show all posts
Showing posts with label JOHN NEVILL. Show all posts

Saturday, February 25, 2012

Marriage and the Nevills - John Nevill and Isobel Ingoldisthorpe

[This blog has moved to http://nevillfeast.wordpress.com/]

Due to a surprising number of people finding there way to the Feast by googling Isobel Ingoldisthorpe (and finding nothing but two fleeting references) and also in order to avoid working on chapter 5, I've pushed this post up the list a bit.

There seems to be a fairly widespread consensus of opinion that John Nevill and his wife, Isobel Ingoldisthorpe, were fond of each other. I think this is based on two lone facts: in the thirteen or so years of their marriage they produced seven children, and despite Isobel's second marriage, she was buried with her first husband. That's a fairly reasonable interpretation and one I don't intend to argue with.  However, their marriage was based on practical, financial and political concerns as much as any other at the time amongst the nobility of England. The number of children born to the couple on its own isn't enough to base the argument on. If you factor in John's work and life in the north of England, a sensible conclusion which can be drawn is that, for a lot of that time, Isobel was with him, or living as close as it was safe for her and the children to be. One such place was Seaton Delaval, just north of Newcastle, about a day's ride from Alnwick castle. She wasn't only buried at Bisham but died there. As her second husband, William Norreys, was a local man, she was possibly living there for much of that marriage. I doubt if the decision to bury her with John was his.

At 26 or 27, John Nevill was quite old for a first marriage. I've mentioned before the difficulties the Salisburys seemed to have finding suitable partners for some of their children. After the three oldest children (Joan, Cecily and Richard) married well, the pool seems to have dried up somewhat. Isobel Ingoldisthorpe was the neice of John Tiptoft, earl of Worcester and, at the time of the marriage, a royal ward. Her father was recently deceased, but her mother lived until at least 1485. Isobel was born in Borough Green, Cambridgeshire and was 15 at the time of her first marriage.

John Nevill was required to pay queen Margaret 1,000 pounds in 10 installments for the marriage, subject to any future ruling that deemed payment unnecessary. This was despite Isobel having reached the majority age for women. Far from disapproving of the match, Margaret would have welcomed it as a way of keeping the Nevills loyal to Henry VI. Richard duke of York's marriage to Cecily Nevill was a good example of this practice. At the time, it was the Nevills whose loyalty was unquestioned and the young York who needed to be kept close to the throne. By the time John married, it was the Nevills' loyalty that needed to be secured. Isobel was an heiress of some note and a very suitable bride.  Eight manors were settled on them in jointure.

They were married on 25 April 1457 at Canterbury Cathedral. The Archbishop, Thomas Bourchier, officiated. The venue was probably chosen because John's brother, the earl of Warwick, was due to depart for Calais shortly thereafter with his wife and two young daughters. Who else might have been in attendance I'm not sure, but this would have been the last chance the family had to be together for some years to come. Though Arundel was a good three days' ride away, Joan countess of Arundel may have made the journey to her brother's wedding. Margaret and Katheryn were still living at home with their parents, so they too probably attended. Alianor, married to Thomas Stanley and probably living at Tatton Hall in Cheshire, may not have.

Far from the image of the hardbitten, career northerner and full-time soldier, John was involved in matters of high politics and state from time to time, including a role in an embassy appointed by the king to investigate breaches of the truce with Burgundy.

After Blore Heath, John was taken prisoner, along wth his brother Thomas, and held in Chester Castle. 

Sunday, April 25, 2010

Chapter one nailed down

[This blog has moved to http://nevillfeast.wordpress.com/]

I think I have chapter one of Nevill pretty much finished. It covers the time between Thomas and Maud's wedding and the departure of Warwick and Salisbury to London to consolidate York's support (and theirs for him). We get to know some of the Nevills quite well, though George, Alianor and Joan have yet to make an appearance. I'm not sure that Joan will feature greatly (or even at all), though her daughter does later on by virtue of her marriage to young John de la Pole, earl of Lincoln. Alianor is away in London, possibly getting stuff ready for her wedding the following year. Neither she nor George is listed with those who were to receive compensation from Egremont for the attack, so I'm going out on a limb and saying they weren't there. I'm having a bit of difficulty getting a handle on George actually - the lives of modern clergymen are a mystery to me, let alone their 15th century counterparts! That is one bullet that I will have to bite.

The Nevill-Percy feud is a strong theme through the chapter, starting with the attack at Heworth. It continues to be important through the next few chapters. (2 - 4 exist in draft or partial form only at the moment.)

Warwick makes his appearance early in the chapter. He hasn't been home for years and his brothers' reaction to him is mixed. He seems to have grown a little apart from them, and there's a teensy bit of resentment that he's been called home to help deal with something that John and Thomas are managing very well on their own, thank you very much! But, whatever else might be going on, he's their big brother and that's all that matters in the end.

An important theme is the marriage of Maud and Thomas. While they seem quite happy at the start, dark clouds are looming (poor kids) and things are going to get worse before they get better.

Another important couple introduced in chapter one are Alice and Henry Fitzhugh - I have an enormous soft spot for these two. Maybe it's the sad ruins of Ravensworth castle, or the fact that Alice outlives nearly everyone and the family's eventual very mixed relationship with Henry Tudor. It might be the difficult position Henry found himself in (a few times) vis a vis his king and his in-laws. Perhaps it's just that, of all of them, Alice was the one who married someone she had known all her life. (Ok, Richard married Anne Beauchamp when he was 6, so technically he knew her all his life as well, but that's not what I mean.)

Hopefully I have managed to portray the Nevills as a closeknit, ambitious, powerful and above all interesting family.

Things I still need to do to remove the qualifiers from pretty much finished:
• find a realable map of the layout of Middleham castle (no use me saying so and so looks out of the window and sees x if they couldn't);
• get a sense of the countryside between Middleham and Ravensworth (google maps and photos can only take me so far, but as I'm yet to win an all-expenses paid trip to the other side of the world, that may have to do);
• find out more about George.

I'm off to the city next week (not a huge trip, but I don't tend to drive north very often) to visit the ANU library, troll the second hand bookshops and (hopefully) have lunch with some local R3S members who have made contact. I'm rather hoping that I'll come back armed with enough information to finish ch 2-4.  Then it's on to part 2 and another wedding - this time John and Isobel's. Which, btw, took place at Canterbury and was officiated by the Archbishop thereof, just in case there's any confusion. Oh, and they didn't defy tradition and the queen and marry for love. And Henry VI wasn't inspired by their deep devotion, love and cross-party marriage to organise Love Day. Just thought I'd share that with y'all.  :-)

Wednesday, April 14, 2010

Barnet or How Wrong Can a Man Be?

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Here was fought the famous battle between Edward IV and the Earl of Warwick April 14th Anno 1471 in which the Earl was Defeated and Slain.


The earl of Warwick was born a hundred years too late, I keep reading, but I don't agree.  He wasn't the Last of the Barons so much as a  template for a new kind of politician.  His main problem was that he was born in an age of kings, with just enough royal blood in his veins to make it impossible for him to be contented with his lot. Which, by any means of measurement, was a lot.  In a meritocracy, he might have achieved his lofty ambitions.  In a democracy, his masterful self-publicity, energy and very real abilities might have taken him to the top.  His major flaws, and there were many, would have led him to the same sorts of mistakes he made in his life and, as he never did things by halves, that could have been as disastrous in any century as it was in the fifteenth.

I have a great deal of affection, regard and admiration for the man, but doing him any favours, cutting him some slack, is not on my agenda.  I am extremely ambivalent about his death at Barnet - as a Yorkist, it comes as something of a relief; as a Nevillist it's pure tragedy.

In the early hours of 14 April 1471, he stood in the mist, facing his cousin and king.  With him were three men about whom he had contrasting feelings:  his estranged brother-in-law, the earl of Oxford, eternal optimist as he was, didn't inspire much confidence; the duke of Exeter, about to be divorced and dispossessed, had never been his favourite person.  The only one of his allies that he loved and trusted, and even that was under some strain, was his brother John, marquess of Montagu.  With Edward IV was William Hastings, another brother-in-law, and Richard, duke of Gloucester, the young cousin who had grown up in Warwick's household.  Ten years ago, when he'd helped Edward take the throne, this was not how it was supposed to end.  Wind-changing Warwick, Shakespeare calls him, which is a bit harsh - it wasn't a stiff breeze that sent him to the exiled court of Margaret of Anjou, it was more like a typhoon.

His belief that he could be forgiven anything, that in the end people would realise that he was right, started very early.  After the first Battle of St Albans, all it had taken was bent knees and a few heartfelt words to the king and all had been well, at least for a time. Margaret of Anjou had managed it, albeit out of desperation to restore herself, her husband and her son to what she knew was their rightful place.  Edward IV had forgiven him twice already and had been prepared to one last time just days earlier.  Join me, he'd said in a letter to his cousin and his brother.  I will pardon you with your lives and we can talk.  When he was captured after Barnet, the possibility of throwing himself once more at someone's mercy must have crossed his mind.  Maybe he was rehearsing his words when the assassin's blade struck.  But he'd done the one thing Edward couldn't set aside - he'd got his brother Montagu killed.  Had both the Nevill brothers fronted the king, they might have had a chance.  A tiny slim sliver of a chance.  Without John, Warwick had none.

He didn't die fleeing, entangled in a wood, just strides away from freedom. Not that fleeing wasn't an option, he'd done it after second St Albans and lived to fight another day; he'd done it during the confusion at Ferrybridge and went on to win the decisive and bloody victory that was Towton.  Flight would have been a sensible course of action, capture - as it turned out - wasn't.

When it came to what to do about his recalcitrant cousin, Edward had three choices:  execute him, forgive him or have him quietly despatched. Someone chose the third option, whether Edward actually ordered it himself we can't be sure.  Executing someone who had once been so close, who had been instrumental in setting the young king on the throne and who was related by blood was unthinkable.  When faced with what to do about brother George, Edward had been absent from the room when the sentence was pronounced and the deed itself was done far away from his eyes (more likely in a bathtub than a butt of wine - I've always thought the malmsey reference was a metaphor for George's reported drunkenness.)  The second option was far too dangerous, no matter how useful a rapidly rehabilitated Warwick might have been in the mopping up operations.  The third was the only one that saved Edward unnecessary pain.  He wasn't a man who enjoyed pain.

In those last days before Barnet, Warwick was deserted by just about everyone who mattered to him, except John, and his reasons for being there weren't predicated on family loyalty.  Clarence had left him, with the connivance and agency of his wife, Warwick's older daughter; Louis XI had abandoned him; and he couldn't have been sure of the continuing loyalty of his younger daughter Anne, now that she was married to a prince and looking towards queenship.

Was that what he was thinking about during those wolf hours before the battle began?  Was he imagining himself the grandfather of a king?  I wonder what he'd have done with Clarence; if he'd have spared Edward's life and Gloucester's.  And George Nevill, Archbishop of York, who'd thrown the gates of London open for the king, when he'd been charged by his brother with holding him out - would he have been rewarded with another term as chancellor?  There were embittered Lancastrians, exile channelling their thoughts and emotions as it would anyone's, who would need to be taken into consideration.  Whether Wariwck could have worked with them is doubtful.  He wasn't particularly adept at working well with others - in a modern bureaucratic setting he'd have been roundly accused of not being a team player.  Hard to be, when the rest of the team are incompetent fools.

The new-old king would need him, at least in the short term, at least until things settled down and England once more accepted a change in rulers.  England was getting good at that.  The people didn't care much who was king as long as someone was and they didn't suffer from misgovernment.  It was the times when there was no visible king, or two concurrent, present rivals that were difficult.

Margaret would never trust him and he'd never trust her.  Even the marriage of their respective children wasn't a strong enough cement to hold the alliance together for long, but it was the key, the only way Warwick could get close to what he wanted.  If Anne had done what she needed to do, despite Margaret's watchful eye, then all would be well.  She understood the importance of it.

Speculating is pointless, unless you need to see the world through his eyes for a time.  Warwick was impulsive and driven by emotion.  The long view wasn't his preference.  A great deal of what he did satisfied what he wanted now and now was so often equated with forever.


Edward's secret marriage and the subsequent elevation of the Wydevilles is often credited with being the catalyst for Warwick's later difficulties (rebellion, treason, bloody minded pig-headedness, call it what you will.)  It clearly upset him, seeing as how he was in the middle of negotiating a match for Edward with a French princess. Edward didn't wilfully let Warwick go off and make a fool of himself. I've no doubt that until he was called on it by Elizabeth's family, the political marriage would have gone ahead and that would have precipitated a crisis long before the one that cost his sons their freedom, if not their lives. That Edward did acknowledge the marriage and that he and Elizabeth had an inordinate number of children together does suggest that his love for her was genuine. That he failed to remain faithful suggests that it wasn't able to sustain him for long. Warwick acknowledged one illegitimate daughter and, doing some quick and dirty maths based on the year of her marriage, it would seem she was born when he was quite young. Fidelity to his countess did not pose him any difficulties after that. I can see how he might have viewed Edward's rich and varied love life, and how that would have irked him somewhat.

In an angry outburst to Louis XI, he supposedly harshly criticised Edward and claimed that he would have made a far better king than any of the other candidates. He was probably right, except a king should make (and break) alliances and treaties based on what's best for his kingdom, not on personal preference, affinity or dislike. Warwick wasn't clearheaded enough to negotiate that particular minefield, though he was a dab hand at negotiations once the decisions were made. It was foreign policy that proved to be the deal breaker. Warwick couldn't understand why Edward insisted on supporting Burgundy, and Edward didn't trust France.

Once the chasm widened between king and earl, everything piled up; every slight, every doubt, every post given to someone with a name other than Nevill. That Edward continued to trust him long after he should have stopped points either to his naivete, his dependence on Warwick or an ability to separate the personal from the professional - not a trait Warwick shared. In the end, Montagu didn't either. Edward should never have given him the earldom of Northumberland. Of all the rewards handed out, it was the one that caused the most distress amongst the nobility, of all the rewards he could have given John, it was the one that meant the most.  Giving him the title Marquess was a bit like taking away a child's favourite toy and replacing it with an ornate but useless ornament. That this pushed John to join his brother shouldn't have surprised anyone. It surprised Edward.

The myths of the battle concentrate on John. His story is seen as the more tragic. He wore, according to legend, the colours of York beneath his own. That was one way to make sure he was murdered before the battle even started. Mediaeval army camps had no locked doors.  John was as angry with Edward as Warwick was, though his reasons were different. That he had doubts is not in dispute but they were about who they were fighting for not against. There is a persistent undercurrent of the hopelessly romantic sort that John was either considering or actually did (just before the end) change sides. He didn't, again for the reasons stated above. There would have been men close to him specially charged with keeping an eye on him, ready to turn on him the moment there was even the slightest hint of treachery. There were no doubt some close to Warwick as well.

The one myth that may have some credibility is the white rose. Though I'm not a sucker for the whole roses thing in the first place, this one could well be true, mainly because it's about someone else, not Montagu himself. After their deaths, the brothers were transported to London, laid out in front of St Paul's (some say naked, some say wrapped only in loin clothes, I say wearing what they wore when they died, minus their armour), and someone slipped a white rose between John's fingers. Again not so much a comment on John's feelings but those of someone who thought of him with some regard and regret. This is the way it ought to be, that gesture says. There are a lot of people who would agree.

They were buried at Bisham alongside their father, mother and brother. This says a great deal about how they were regarded by their cousin, the king. It's quite a bit of trouble to go to when other, equally well born, well connected and important people who died in battle were buried where they fell. I'm sure their betrayals bewildered Edward. He'd rewarded them handsomely, taken them into his closest counsel and they turned on him.

They left behind between them nine children and two widows. The countess of Warwick panicked on hearing the news of her husband's death and took to sanctuary. Anne Nevill, now the Princess of Wales, accompanied her husband and mother-in-law on the hellride to Tewkesbury where she endured a second loss. We don't know what Isobel Ingoldisthorpe felt, but if John was half the man historians claim he was, her grief and devastation would have been real and profound. She remarried a year later, died three years after that and was buried with her first husband. The tomb was desecrated during the dissolution of the monasteries, if anyone knew or cared I hope they kept the Montagus together.

There's something about the pathologically, wilfully wrong people of history that appeals to me enormously. For a lot of his career and life, Warwick's actions, values and attitudes were right.  In the end, they weren't. There are any number of nodes along the way, decision points, that would have led Warwick, John, Edward and Gloucester away from Barnet. But taking a deep breath and thinking Now, what did I just do wrong? What can I learn from this? wasn't a strong suit of Warwick's.  His focus was always on the wrongs of others.

Today, Warwick and Montagu are dead. Tomorrow, Edward, Gloucester and Hastings will be on their way to Tewkesbury and the strange schizophrenic bifurcation of my life can end. If only I knew where the bones of the Nevill brothers lie, I could wish them a peaceful rest.


A very good summary of Barnet can be found here.