tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2374171590843680842.post5311959928546327379..comments2017-05-06T01:46:41.503+10:00Comments on A Nevill Feast: Marriage and the Nevills - Isobel Nevill and George Duke of ClarenceRagged Staffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13285451640470655380noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2374171590843680842.post-29905203222299506392010-06-16T12:05:24.941+10:002010-06-16T12:05:24.941+10:00Thanks sweet_caroline. Cecily's behaviour rega...Thanks sweet_caroline. Cecily's behaviour regarding her sons certainly seems strange at times. It's been suggested (can't remember who by, think it might be Laynesmith) that she might have been complicit in the rumours of Edward's bastardy. The only reason I can think of for that was that she didn't want her daughter-in-law to be in control of the young Edward V, but it does seem a bit extreme.<br />George was apparently Margaret's favourite brother and she would have done anything to support him. Oddly though, Hicks suggests that marriage to Mary of Burgundy would have been the surest way for Edward to get his brother out of his hair. The treason charge was clearly trumped up, whatever George was up to, I don't think it was an attempt to dethrone Edward.<br />As to his drinking, the jury's out on that for me, though he does seem a classic candidate.<br />I think he did love Isobel. They weren't strangers when they married and Warwick had probably been encouraging friendship and affection between them for years. His own marriage, from what I can gather, was fairly happy and that's one charge - heartless father forcing his daughter's into miserable marriages - at least in Isobel's case, that he doesn't deserve.Ragged Staffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285451640470655380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2374171590843680842.post-89843082192122930922010-06-16T11:12:20.445+10:002010-06-16T11:12:20.445+10:00Ragged Staff, Thanks for another wonderful post. ...Ragged Staff, Thanks for another wonderful post. I've wondered why George never gave up his quest to dethrone his elder brother. If he was as heavy a drinker as he was reputed to me, perhaps his alcohol consumption could have aggravated an underlying mental disorder- Clearly his love for Isobel was poignant and stabilizing influence in his life. <br />I also wonder if he felt he had the tacit encouragement of his mother and sister- the politically powerful and savvy MoY knew full well that a marriage between George and her stepdaughter, who was also a descendant of EIII, would enrich him vastly and make him a very serious threat to his older brother.sweet_caroline1https://www.blogger.com/profile/01289623029595649156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2374171590843680842.post-2502744755910895502010-06-16T04:14:20.052+10:002010-06-16T04:14:20.052+10:00Thanks Kathryn. The maudlin crap drives me crazy a...Thanks Kathryn. The maudlin crap drives me crazy as well!Ragged Staffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285451640470655380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2374171590843680842.post-88138900808931520652010-06-16T03:37:07.800+10:002010-06-16T03:37:07.800+10:00Great post, and it's fascinating to see so man...Great post, and it's fascinating to see so many things from a different perspective from the usual! I love the 'what if' idea, too, and can only echo Elizabeth's comment about being surprised that the same maudlin crap gets trotted out again and again.Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2374171590843680842.post-44820551072877134702010-06-16T02:18:29.372+10:002010-06-16T02:18:29.372+10:00What a wonderful idea, Elizabeth. I couldn't f...What a wonderful idea, Elizabeth. I couldn't find it to put in the main post, but I recall (in Hick's Warwick, I think) mention that the first tentative steps at reconciliation between Clarence and Edward began in France through the offices of one of Isobel's women. (I've just had another hunt, but I still can't find it and it's late.) I think Isobel as widow would have been interesting as well. I don't think her son would have grown up with the 'idiot' tag if he'd had something resembling a normal home life. Just btw, Margaret countess of Salisbury (their daughter) apparently wore a small silver wine barrel around her neck to commemorate her father's supposed manner of death (though I think the butt of malmsey thing was a joke or a metaphor - he was probably drowned but more likely in his bath. Once the decision was made, and before his regret set in, I think Edward wanted it done but not publicly and maybe without even knowing it was imminent). She was a tough old broad as well! There are your tragic victims, if you must have them (not you personally!) - Isobel and George's children.Ragged Staffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285451640470655380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2374171590843680842.post-70123225410746317222010-06-16T01:51:31.715+10:002010-06-16T01:51:31.715+10:00That would make a wonderful 'what-if' stor...That would make a wonderful 'what-if' story had Isobel or Anne lived longer. I like to think that at least one of them, given any room, would have taken the reins of her life gladly and played very important roles in not only her husband's life, but in the lives of her children as well. My money would go on Isobel, for some unknown reason really: I just think being side-lined for Anne would have irritated her to the point that she would strive to overcome being a duchess rather than queen. In my over-active imagination, I see Isobel successfully pleading for the life of her husband and smoothing the reconciliation between the brothers. Ah, the wonderful world of the 'what-if'.Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06863958329151143572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2374171590843680842.post-78489977842040270902010-06-16T00:17:51.934+10:002010-06-16T00:17:51.934+10:00Susan, thanks!
Elizabeth, I appreciate your comme...Susan, thanks!<br /><br />Elizabeth, I appreciate your comments (and your humour) very much. Seems there are too many people who just love victims. The Nevill sisters died before they could witness the downfalls of their husbands (Anne already having been through it once). What's impossible to say (though fascinating to speculate) is whether things would have been different for George and Richard had Isobel and Anne lived.Ragged Staffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285451640470655380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2374171590843680842.post-17941732734080262582010-06-16T00:05:38.000+10:002010-06-16T00:05:38.000+10:00Well I still don't understand how marriage to ...Well I still don't understand how marriage to Clarence could have been anything but miserable! I mean, didn't he have bad teeth, foul breath, scales and treat her horribly? I, of course, am joking - however lame. <br /><br />Great post and with the wealth of information out there about it is surprising that there are so many people who persist with the same maudlin crap about Isobel's and Anne's marriages and their too-brief lives. Thanks for the great perspective!Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06863958329151143572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2374171590843680842.post-68242220296260053642010-06-15T23:39:02.401+10:002010-06-15T23:39:02.401+10:00Well put!Well put!Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.com